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Posted: Feb 14 2005, 01:41 PM
Dom Member No.: 1120
I dont know if its ok to ask here or not?
(If its not 'ok', Admin delete this post.)
If you opened up a 22LR bullet into a real hollow point
with something like a "Paco Tool" so that there's more
room on the tip of the bullet. Would there be a way to
make the tip of the round Explosive?
Could you use normal gun powder?
Thanks
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Posted: Feb 14 2005, 02:14 PM
yzguy Member No.: 31
Joined: 14-April 03
gun powder alone would not do it, you need something like a primer
to ignite it on impact. I'm not sure how stable that would be
(as in going off by accident), or for that matter how much powder
you could get in there. Another problem is that an explosion
generally needs to be breaking out of something.
Take some gun powder, pour it on the ground and light it.
You get a big flash, but no explosion. Now put just a little in
a container (a case) and set it off, and you get an explosion of
the combustion trying to break out....
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Posted: Feb 14 2005, 10:24 PM
Dom Member No.: 1120
What if you used a "Paco Tool" and open it enough to put a little
powder and say like primer for a 380acp on the tip to close the
power inside?
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Posted: Feb 15 2005, 05:59 AM
Peter Zimbelman Member No.: 857
Back in the 80's there was a company making explosive rounds for
.22LR's and I bought a brick of them. They were fun if/when they
worked. I'd say there was at least 50% failure-to-explode rate.
(Rumor had it that the bullet removed from President Reagan's
chest was one of such, not exploded!) Anyway, the advertisement
on the rounds stated that even an empty aluminum coke can would
set them off - HA! They had a 90/95% failure rate; a steel can
would "open out" tho, when they worked. Accuracy was on the order
of 7 inches at 50 yards, not good enough for crows. My opinion
was there wasn't enough room inside of the hollowpoint for
explosives; perhaps the Aguilar SSS 60 grain slug would have enough
room if drilled out carefully on a lathe. Seems to me that
a Paco/Dremel tool would wildly upset the balance and accuracy
is why I'd use a lathe.
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Posted: Feb 15 2005, 10:09 AM
ThaiBoxer Member No.: 865
Tolkien on goblins: "It is not unlikely that they invented some
of the machines that have since troubled the world, especially
the ingenious devices for killing large numbers of people at once,
for wheels and engines and explosions have always delighted them..."
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Posted: Feb 15 2005, 04:21 PM
yzguy Member No.: 31
reliable contact ignition would be the hard part, well that and
keeping accuracy, and having them not go off in the mag...
definately would be easier with a larger caliber, just stuffing in
powder and small primer, maybe even lightly crimped into the nose....
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Posted: Feb 16 2005, 02:50 PM
Dom Member No.: 1120
QUOTE (Peter Zimbelman @ Feb 15 2005, 05:54 AM)
Back in the 80's there was a company making explosive
rounds for .22LR's and I bought a brick of them.
Can you remember the name of the company?
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Posted: Apr 3 2005, 03:17 PM
TravisM. Member No.: 1498
My first .22LR was a Daisy Legacy bolt action. I took it to a friends
for an after-school squirrel hunt, and the following week he bought
a Romanian trainer. I think it was one of the first ones imported.
I would shoot all day long, and had really nice finish on the stock
and steel, something the currently imported ones lack. Anyway,
we tried different means to make HP bullets more "Explosive".
We found that Gunpowder in the point didnt work. It seemed like
the epoxy we used to keep it in the cavity protected it from impact,
and if we used less, I think the friction from inside the barrel
burnt it before it made it to the target.
What did seem to work, was to tear open a shotgun shell that
contained size 7 1/2 (I think) shot. Use a drill bit in a ratcheting
tap handle to enlarge the hole, and use a drop of super glue to hold
the BB in the cavity. It was pretty accurate considering the process,
IIRC groups at 25 yards only opened up 1/4" to 1/2", Depending on the
ammo we used to start with. So, my explanation was that we didnt
affect the bullets weight ratio that much.
Our test medium was soda cans filled with water. for anyone wanting
to see the "destructive" capabilities of a .22lr, this will do it.
A "factory" Federal .22LR load would usually have a small hole and a
split in the can on the entry side, and a large hole on the other
side that resembled a flower. As we experimented, we found the the
best performance on our test medium occured when we opened the
hollow point up so that the BB actually fit about 1/16" down from
the tip of the bullet. With this experiment, we often had to pick
up two pieces from one can, often a few yards apart.
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Posted: Apr 3 2005, 08:19 PM
J57ltr Member No.: 1816
If you fill the cans with sand
regular hollow points will do that as well.
--Jeff
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Posted: Apr 8 2005, 10:27 PM
Dom Member No.: 1120
QUOTE (TravisM. @ Apr 3 2005, 03:12 PM)
My first .22LR was a Daisy Legacy bolt action.
I took it to a friends for an after-school squirrel hunt,
and the following week he bought a Romanian trainer.
I think it was one of the first ones imported.
I would shoot all day long, and had really nice finish
on the stock and steel, something the currently imported
ones lack. Anyway, we tried different means to make HP
bullets more "Explosive". We found that Gunpowder in the
point didnt work. It seemed like the epoxy we used to keep
it in the cavity protected it from impact, and if we used
less, I think the friction from inside the barrel burnt it
before it made it to the target.
What did seem to work, was to tear open a shotgun shell that
contained size 7½ (I think) shot. Use a drill bit in a
ratcheting tap handle to enlarge the hole, and use a drop of
super glue to hold the BB in the cavity. It was pretty accurate
considering the process, IIRC groups at 25 yards only opened
up ¼" to ½", Depending on the ammo we used to start with.
So, my explanation was that we didnt affect the bullets weight
ratio that much.
Our test medium was soda cans filled with water. for anyone
wanting to see the "destructive" capabilities of a .22LR, this
will do it. A "factory" Federal .22LR load would usually have a
small hole and a split in the can on the entry side, and a
large hole on the other side that resembled a flower. As we
experimented, we found the the best performance on our test
medium occured when we opened the hollow point up so that the
BB actually fit about 1/16" down from the tip of the bullet.
With this experiment, we often had to pick up two pieces from
one can, often a few yards apart.
So shot from a shotgun shell worked?
How does that make the bullet explosive?
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Posted: Apr 9 2005, 02:09 PM
yekim Member No.: 2010
I used to use a 1/8" drill bit and drill about 3/16" down into the
hollow point. This was meant as squirrel medicine at close ranges
around the cabin. It was effective, but I never did any actual
testing in a medium or for accuracy. Seems like that would be
all you need. The squirrels would not just have a hole in them,
it was a bit more destructive. I was not worried about the pelts,
just the damage to the cabin they were causing.
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Posted: Apr 9 2005, 08:20 PM
1917-1911M Member No.: 1925
you guys aren't worried about accidentally setting a round off
with this drilling, etc.? I expect a .22LR blowing up in your face
wouldn't be too pleasant. Wouldn't this drilling and resultant
heat be dangerous?
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Posted: Apr 10 2005, 11:12 PM
KernelKrink Member No.: 1880
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Mercury yet.
The commercial rimfire "exploding bullets" were called X-PLODERS, IIRC.
Got an ad for them many years ago with a lot of Squires Bingham
literature, so I always assumed they were Philipino in origin.
50-50 detonation ratio. A true explosive (which gunpowder is not)
does not need to be confined in order to detonate.
IIRC, the X-Ploder rounds were standard hollowpoints filled with
Mercury Fulminate, the stuff corrosive primers were filled with.
Older blasting caps were also made from it. Modern primers are
Lead Styphinate so I don't know if filling an HP with primer innards
will go off or not. Scraping the dry primer pellet out of a live primer
using pliers to hold the primer and a long wooden stick would be the
safest way to acquire some, but do so at your own risk.
Even a single one going off could go flying and hurt you.
Drilling your own HP is relatively safe, you are turning the drill
by hand so there is no heat buildup. Even if there was, the heat
would have to travel thru the bullet and case to set off the primer.
That much heat would make you drop the round long before it got hot
enough to set off the primer.
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Posted: Jun 3 2005, 01:46 AM
phideaux Member No.: 2151
another way to make a devastating .22LR bullet is to "flat nose"
the tip. In the gun shop I used to work at I had a 5" section
of .22LR barrel liner left after relining an old Stevens Crackshot.
I took the chamber reamer and chambered one end of the left over
liner, measured a loaded .22LR round and cut the liner about 1/8"
shorter than the round. Then you take a loaded round, insert in
your new "flat-toppin tool" and cut off tip of the bullet with
an exacto knife or other sharp blade. you can make up a few
boxes in advance in just a few minutes and I never noticed a real
difference in accuracy or feeding in my rattly old Marlin 60 or 10/22.
The flat tip really seems to make it expand fast. Instead of the
"sploit or wop" noise with a round nose bullet you get a great
"THWAP" sound when whackin your favorite vermin.
ETA yep... tried mercury once when i was younger in a Blackhawk
.41 mag... once. There's easier and safer ways in larger calibers...
but I don't see much getting done in a .22LR rimfire. not enough room
in the bullet for anything substantial to be put in there.
guess that's why X-Ploders sucked so bad.
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Posted: Jul 7 2005, 07:33 PM
shsrcat Member No.: 1145
QUOTE (phideaux @ Jun 3 2005, 02:41 AM)
another way to make a devastating .22LR bullet is to
"flat nose" the tip.in the gun shop i used to work at
i had a 5" section of .22LR barrel liner left after
relining an old Stevens Crackshot.i took the chamber
reamer and chambered one end of the left over liner,
measured a loaded .22LR round and cut the liner about
1/8" shorter than the round.then you take a loaded round,
insert in your new "flat-toppin tool" and cut off tip
of the bullet with an exacto knife or other sharp blade.
you can make up a few boxes in advance in just a few
minutes and i never noticed a real difference in accuracy
or feeding in my rattly old Marlin 60 or 10/22.
the flat tip really seems to make it expand fast.
instead of the "sploit or wop" noise with a round nose
bullet you get a great "THWAP" sound when whackin your
favorite vermin.
ETA yep... tried mercury once when i was younger in a Blackhawk
.41 mag... once. There's easier and safer ways in larger calibers...
but i don't see much getting done in a .22LR rimfire. not enough room
in the bullet for anything substantial to be put in there.
guess that's why X-Ploders sucked so bad.
Why not buy the CCI SGB bullet?
It already has a flat nose and is a full 40 grains in weight.
I used them from a 10/22 on jacks and it stops them dead in their
tracks with any solid hit. I think they would work just as well
out of any pistol.
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Posted: Jul 9 2005, 09:25 PM
TravisM. Member No.: 1498
Sorry for the time between posts.
Our theory was that the BB served the same purpose as the polymer
tip on a "ballistic-tip" varmint bullet.
I've noticed on hollowpoint bullets shot from rimfire rifles and
pistols, that bullet-to-bullet consistency isnt too great.
For rimfire rounds costing what, 1.5 cents a piece from a 550
round bulk pack, what do you expect? Some bullets would be "smeared"
off to one side, others would almost be completely flat, and some
almost seemed like the were designed to break into two pieces.
It seems that the BB accelerated the expansion process of the bullet,
causing faster expansion than an un-modified hollowpoint shot into
the same material.
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