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found 28 Nov in a Forum-thread on:

Lube Recipe:
Hi, I just mixed up a gallon of lube.
I got the recipe from a guy at work who got it
from a Beretta™ armorer at the plant in MD.

  • 1 qt Syn. Trans fluid (AMSoil©)   [$7.95]
  • 1 qt Mobil™ Syn. 5w30   [$5.00]
  • 1 STP™ Oil Treatment (15 oz)   [$2.50]
  • 1 pint Marvel Mystery oil® by TurtleWax©   [$2.50]
  • 1 oz of Millitec-1® - Synthetic Metal Conditioner   [$7.90]
    total cost of $13.00, but I had to buy a new 1 gal gas can to mix
    it in. I degreased a stock ·Ruger 10/22, ·Marlin 25n, ·Beretta 96d,
    ·Taurus Millenium-pro, and a ·Ruger MKIII.
    I applied a small amount to the working parts,
    and I must say I noticed smootheness unlike using regular Militec.
    I think I have enough lube for a small army now.
    Just passing on the info, I like the stuff!!
    BTW, I used a marinating syringe to transfer it into 2 empty 1 oz.
    Militec bottles. I didn't notice any missing from the gallon can!

    Militec Review

    ?? "Non-Chlorinated Brake Cleaner is reportedly
        the same chemical as Gun-Scrubber. ??

      posted: Sun 11 Dec 2005 09:43pm by Sure-Shot
      Run a mix 50% hydrogen peroxide and 50% white vinegar.
      This will really clean the lead out of the grooves,
      don't leave it in over 15 minutes and pour really hot
      or boiling water through it to stop the process.
      The hot water will pretty well dry by itself
      then run an oil swab through it.

    09:16am 02 May 2006, Henry-thread:
    Do you disassemble to clean?
    If your rifle is really dirty, then maybe you should disassemble it,
    and clean it thoroughly.
    Normally, I open the action of my H001L, and spray carburetor cleaner
    through the barrel, from ejection port to muzzle. Then, I spray into
    the action. I am careful to avoid spraying it on the wood. Also,
    I run some patches, soaked with automatic transmission fluid,
    through the bore, and some Q-tips through watever part of the action
    I can reach. After all of the carburetor cleaner is dry, then I
    lubricate my rifle. I like to lubricate my rifle with "Slick-50" grease,
    that I mixed with a pretty good amount of graphite.
    That is a messy mixture, but once you work it throughout the action,
    you will notice a very nice smoothness. Finally, I wipe down the
    outside of my rifle with some transmission fluid.
    By the way, automatic transmission fluid is an excellent cleaner,
    and is pretty cheap. Give it a try.

    From Henry Forum
    Thu 04 May 2006, 05:08PM
    UnidenSoup, thread 136038

    Alternate Gun Lubes
    Got this from the net, but can't remember where. Thought It might come in handy. Enjoy.

    Gun Oil Substitutes
    Keep in mind that no matter what lubricant you use, you should use the minimum amount of lube possible. You want it lubricated and not an oil field.

    Synthetic Automotive Oils
    Synthetic automotive oils (such as Quaker State High Performance Synthetic) work well as general lubricants and because of their detergent capabilities they will help to remove "crud." (Synthetic oils handle low temperatures better than regular oils.) Just remember, as with any lubricant, not to over lube things. Valvoline Semi-Synthetic Power Steering Fluid has also been used with great success by many folks as their normal lubricant.

    Air Conditioning Refrigerant Oil
    Air conditioning refrigerant oil, available at most auto dealers and auto stores, is highly penetrative and makes an excellent lube and a rust preventative. It works at high temperatures and very low ones (won't freeze even when mixed with Freon) and should be just the ticket for Alaskan use.

    Slick Stuff
    This very "oily", (i.e. slick, greasy) lubricant appears to adhere very well to metal, with little or no creep. Thus it does not appear to drain from slides and parts during extended storage. From the formula it appears that it might not be suitable at very low temperatures.

    2 parts Dexron II or III automatic transmission fluid
    1 Part Mobil-1 Synthetic Oil, 30 weight, or 10W-30
    1 Part STP Oil Treatment (the stuff for "old" cars w/ over 30,000 mi.)
    Thanks to John Nichols for this tip

    Another excellent home brew lube is Amsoil Synthetic ATF with some lanolin added to make it even slicker. A synthetic grease from MS Moly called Arctic Grade 67 also makes a great lube especially for cold weather. It is a totally synthetic moly grease with the consistency of chocolate mousse. It does not run, weep or smell (very important for the SAF (spousal acceptance factor). It is reported to work fine at -30 degrees.
    Thanks to Roger Rothschild for this tip.

    Slippery Stuff
    Try 80 percent Marvel Mystery Oil mixed with 20 percent Slick 50 .
    Thanks to Jim Conway for this tip.

    Lead Removal
    For really stubborn lead removal try a 50/50 mix of 3% Hydrogen Peroxide (the common drug store variety) and white vinegar. Plug the bore, fill it up using a dropper or syringe and let it stand for 5-10 minutes. (Do not let it stand for too long.) You may get some foaming so protect the barrel's external finish as this solution is not kind to bluing--so take appropriate precautions. Drain and wipe out the black muck that used to be lead and then immediately clean well with bore cleaner.
    Thanks to Joe Sledge for this recipe.

    Pure turpentine has reportedly also been used as a lead remover.

    from forum Ronald J. Snow
    Posted: Fri 12 May 2006 6:34am
      Several years ago I had a 22 Magnum Mossberg rifle brought in as the owner could not get it sighted in. Asked him the usual questions like what ammo are you using. 22 Long Rifle was his reply.
      Checked the bore and found 18 (eighteen) bullets lodged in the barrel.
      The 22LR was so loose in the chamber that the gas pressure did not send the bullets the full length of the barrel and they piled up one behind the other. Think how fortunate he was that he didn't fire a 22 Magnum in there after firing one or more of the 22LR cartridges.
      It took a lot of work and luck to remove all that lead from the barrel; however, the rifle was still usable.
      As said before, use only the ammo the rifle is designed for.

    Copper Fouling:
    User: Jim n Iowa · Mbr#: 2066
    Posted: Jan 11 2006, 05:08 PM

    The Sweets works good. I had acquired a 243 that had never been
    cleaned for copper, used Sweets and used Sweets, patches still out blue.
    An old time shooter told me to soak it good over night then run a
    dry patch thru it. I did just that and patch pushed out strands of copper,
    looked like wire. I know a lot of shooters will negate this practice
    as it will ruin the barrel. I am still shooting it at the bench and
    its shooting better than me. Remember if you use a brush make sure
    its a nylon brush. You can make your own copper foul out,
    by getting the 10% ammonia at a hardware store (1gal)
    use 2 parts to 1 of sudsy ammonia soap,
    1 part ivory dishwasher soap.
    Its a lot cheaper than Sweets and you have a bunch of it.
    Neutralize the ammonia after clean up with a good solvent like #9

    FrFrog Lead Removal:
    try a brass-brush on your cleaning rod
    wrapped in some "00" Steel-Wool
    then dribble some Shooters-Choice "Lead Remover"
    then dribble some Kroil

    " Spelling only counts in Chemstry."
    " Weird Science: violates BOTH i before e spelling rules."
    " Build a man a fire and you will warm him only for a night.
      Set a man on fire and you will warm him for the rest of his life."
    " A fine is a tax for doing wrong,
      A tax is a fine for doing right."
    "Keep the Hunting Tradition alive... Go Kill something."
      Procecutor: Why did you shoot the home intruder 10 times?
      Witness: I only had 10 bullets.
    "Invest in base-metals: Lead, Brass and Steel."
    "Am I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth?"
        -- Galatians 4:16
    "... What if there were No Hypothetical Questions ...?"
    "Remember kids, if there's a loaded gun in the room,
      be sure that you're the one holding it."     -- Captain Combat
    "If the 1st Amendment were as gutted as the 2nd,
      we would only be allowed vowels by now."
    "It's war -- so when can we start shooting back at the enemy Democrats?"
    "My grandmother's brain was dead, but her heart was still beating.
    …   It was the first time we ever had a Democrat in the family." -- Emo Philips
    "The only group of people who have anything to fear from
      fully restoring the right to Keep and Bear Arms,   is the criminal element.
     As they say on Masada... "Never again".
    "Those who live by the sword... are often shot by those who don't"!
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it and
      charge a fee therefore." -- Murphy v. PA, SCOTUS 1943 ???
    "Fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."
        -- Sigmund Freud

     They should have stopped with "Congress shall make no Law..."

    "Some people think that the Second Amendment is an outdated relic
      of an earlier time. Doubtless some also think that constitutional
      protections of other rights are outdated relics of earlier times.
      We The People own those rights regardless, unless and until
      We The People repeal them. For those who believe it to be outdated,
      the Second Amendment provides a good test of whether their
      allegiance is really to the Constitution of the United States,
      or only to their preferences in public policies and audiences.
      The Constitution is law, not vague aspirations, and we are
      obligated to protect, defend, and apply it.
      If the Second Amendment were truly an outdated relic,
      the Constitution provides a method for repeal.
      The Constitution does not furnish the federal courts with an eraser."
        -- 9th Circuit Court Judge Andrew Kleinfeld,
        dissenting opinion in which the court refused to rehear
        the case while citing deeply flawed anti-Second Amendment nonsense
        (Nordyke v. King; opinion filed April 5, 2004)

    "… Mr. and Mrs. America, turn 'em all in…"
        -- Dianne Feinstein, CBS-TV's 60 Minutes, 5 Feb 1995.

    "… For the first time a civilized nation has full gun registration!
      Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient,
      and the world will follow our lead in the future
        -- Adolf Hitler     BOGUS-QUOTE!!

      No one can read our Constitution without concluding that the
      people who wrote it wanted their government severely limited;
      the words "no" and "not" employed in restraint of government
      power occur 24 times in the first seven articles of the
      Constitution and 22 more times in the Bill of Rights.
        -- Edmund A. Opitz

    "Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India,
      history will look upon the act of depriving
      a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."
        -- Mahatma Gandhi

    "I do believe that where there is a choice only between
      cowardice and violence, I would advise violence.
      Thus when my eldest son asked me what he should have
      done had he been present when I was almost fatally
      assaulted in 1908 [by an Indian extremist opposed to
      Gandhi's agreement with Smuts], whether he should have
      run away and seen me killed or whether he should have
      used his physical force which he could and wanted to use,
      and defend me, I told him it was his duty to defend me
      even by using violence. Hence it was that I took part
      in the Boer War, the so-called Zulu Rebellion and
      [World War I]. Hence also do I advocate training in arms
      for those who believe in the method of violence.
      I would rather have India resort to arms in order to
      defend her honor than that she should in a cowardly
      manner become or remain a helpless witness to her own dishonor."
        -- Mohandas K. Gandhi,
        Young India, August 11, 1920
        from Fischer, Louis ed., The Essential Gandhi, 1962

    "And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers
      are not warned from time to time that this people preserve
      the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms...
      The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time,
      with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
        -- Thomas Jefferson in a letter to William S. Smith in 1787.
        Taken from Jefferson, On Democracy p. 20, S. Padover ed., 1939

    "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species
      of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate
      exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and
      independence to the mind.
      Games played with the ball and others of that nature,
      are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind.
      Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks."
        -- Thomas Jefferson, Encyclopedia of T. Jefferson,
          318, Foley, Ed., reissued 1967.

    "The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield
      and government to gain ground."
        -- Thomas Jefferson

    "A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined,
      but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition
      to maintain a status of independence from any who might
      attempt to abuse them,
      which would include their own government."
        -- George Washington

    "The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws
      by the sword, because the whole body of the people are armed,
      and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops."
        -- Noah Webster,
        An Examination into the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution
        Proposed BV the Late Convention (1787)

    "Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed;
      as they are in almost every kingdom of Europe. The supreme
      power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword;
      because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute
      a force superior to any bands of regular troops that can be,
      on any pretense, raised in the United States."
        -- Noah Webster in
        " An Examination into the Leading Principles
        of the Federal Constitution," 1787, in Paul Ford, ed.,
        Pamphlets on the Constitution of the United States,
        at p. 56 (New York, 1888).

    "Justice will not be served until those who are unaffected
      are as outraged as those who are."
        -- Benjamin Franklin

    "Make yourself sheep and the wolves will eat you."
        -- Benjamin Franklin

    "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain
      a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
      -- Benjamin Franklin Historical Review of Pennsylvania.
      [Note: This sentence was often quoted in the Revolutionary period.
        It occurs even so early as November, 1755, in an answer
        by the Assembly of Pennsylvania to the Governor,
        and forms the motto of Franklin's "Historical Review," 1759,
        appearing also in the body of the work.
      -- Frothingham: Rise of the Republic of the United States, p413]

    "Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people
      to keep and bear arms is, under any colour or pretext whatsoever,
      prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink
      of destruction."
        -- St. George Tucker, in his edition
        of 'Blackstone's Commentaries,' 1:300 (1803).

    "Detached reflection cannot be demanded in the presence of an uplifted knife."
        -- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Supreme Court Justice

    "As nightfall does not come all at once, neither does oppression.
      In both instances, there is a twilight. And it is in such
      twilight that we all must be aware of change in the air,
      however slight, lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness."
        -- Justice William O. Douglas, US Supreme Court (1939-75)

    "The prohibition is general. No clause in the Constitution could
      by any rule of construction be conceived to give to Congress
      a power to disarm the people. Such a flagitious attempt could only
      be made under some general pretense by a state legislature.
      But if in any blind pursuit of inordinate power,
      either should attempt it, this amendment may be appealed
      to as a restraint on both."
        -- William Rawle, A View of the Constitution 125-6 (2nd ed. 1829)

    "Liberty means responsibility.   …   that is why most men dread it."
        -- George Bernard Shaw

    "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
      the unreasonable man persists in trying to adapt the world
      to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the
      unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw

    "You cannot teach a man anything.
      You can only help him discover it in himself."
        -- Galileo

    "It is not the function of our government to keep the citizen from falling into error;
      it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error."
        -- Justice Robert H. Jackson

    "A Bill of Rights that means what the majority wants it to mean
      is worthless."   -- Justice Antonin Scalia

    "Every 13 seconds in America someone uses a gun to stop a crime."
        -- Senator Larry Craig   R-ID   12Jun2000

    "How a politician stands on the Second Amendment tells you
      how he or she views you as an individual...
      as a trustworthy and productive citizen,
      or as part of an unruly crowd that needs to be lorded over,
      controlled, supervised, and taken care of."
        -- (former) Tx Rep Suzanna Gratia Hupp

    "We'll take one step at a time, and the first is necessarily -
      given the political realities - very modest.
      We'll have to start working again to strengthen the law,
      and then again to strengthen the next law and again and again.
      Our ultimate goal, total control of handguns,
      is going to take time. The first problem is to
      slow down production and sales. Next is to get registration.
      The final problem is to make possession of all handguns
      and ammunition (with a few exceptions) totally illegal."
        -- Pete Shields, founder of Handgun Control, Inc.,
        New Yorker Magazine, June 26, 1976, pg. 53

    "Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentis telum est"
      A sword is never a killer, it's a tool in the killer's hands.
        -- Lucius Annaeus Seneca   "the younger" ca. (4bc-65ad)

     "Three groups spend other people's money:
      children, thieves and politicians.   All three need supervision."
        -- Dick Armey   U.S. Congressman

    "The real destroyer of the liberties of the people
      is he who spreads among them bounties, donations and benefits."
        -- Plutarch

    "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul
      can always depend on the support of Paul."
        -- George Bernard Shaw

    "The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace
      alarmed, and thus clamorous to be led to safety,
      by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins,
      all of them imaginary."
        -- H.L. Mencken

    "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of
      its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better
      to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral
      busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep,
      his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who
      torment us for our own good will torment us without end,
      for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."
        -- C.S. Lewis

    "Throughout recorded history, without exception, it has
      been the sole accomplishment of organized government to
      deprive their populations of liberty and of their property."
        -- John C. Calhoun

    "There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any
      government has is the power to crack down on criminals.
      Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them.
      One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes
      impossible for men to live without breaking laws.
      Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens?
      What's there in that for anyone?
      But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed
      nor enforced nor objectively interpreted and you create a
      nation of law-breakers.
      Now that's the system, Mr. Rearden, that's the game,
      and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with."
      Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand, Part II, Chapter 3.

    "It stands to reason that where there's sacrifice,
      there's someone collecting sacrificial offerings.
      Where there's service, there's someone being served.
      The man who speaks to you of sacrifice,
      speaks of slaves and masters.
      And intends to be the master."
        -- Ayn Rand

    "Individual rights are not subject to a public vote;
      a majority has no right to vote away the rights of a minority;
      the political function of rights is precisely to protect
      minorities from oppression by majorities (and the smallest
      minority on earth is the individual)."
        -- Ayn Rand

    "There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power
      any government has is the power to crack down on criminals.
      Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them.
      One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes
      impossible to live without breaking laws."
        -- Ayn Rand

    "Independence is the recognition of the fact that yours is
      the responsibility of judgement and nothing can help
      you escape it -- that no substitute can do your thinking,
      as no pinch-hitter can live your life..."
        -- Ayn Rand

    "No human rights can exist without property rights.
      Since material goods are produced by the mind and effort
      of individual men, and are needed to sustain their lives,
      if the producer does not own the result of his effort,
      he does not own his life."
        -- Ayn Rand

    "Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process
      he does not become a monster. For when you look long into
      the abyss, the abyss also looks into you."
        -- Neitzshe

    "You must understand, therefore, that there are two ways of
      fighting: by law or by force. The first way is natural to men,
      and the second to beasts. But as the first way often proves
      inadequate one must have recourse to the second."
        -- Niccolo Machiavelli in "The Prince".

    "War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest of things;
      the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic
      feelings which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse.
      A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight,
      nothing which is more important than his own personal safety,
      is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless
      made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
        -- John Stuart Mills

    "That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or
      working class flat is the symbol of democracy.
      It is our job to see that it stays there."
        -- George Orwell

    "We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready
      in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."
        -- George Orwell

    "We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office."
        -- Aesop

    1. An armed man is a citizen, an unarmed man is a subject.
    2. A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone.
    3. Colt the original point and click interface.
    4. Gun control is not about guns it is about control.
    5. If guns are outlawed can we use swords?
    6. If guns cause crime then pencils cause misspelled words.
    7. Free men do not ask permission to bear arms.
    8. If you do not know your rights then you have none.
    9. Those who trade liberty for security have neither.
    10. The United States Constitution all rights reserved.
    11. What part of "shall not be infringed" do you not understand.
    12. The Second Ammendment is in place in case they ignore the others.
    13. Guns have only two enemies; rust and liberals.
    14. Know guns, know peace and safety; No guns, no peace and safety.
    15. You do nor shoot to kill; you shoot to stay alive.
    16. 911 Government sponsored dial a prayer.
    17. Assult is behavior not a device.
    18. Criminals love gun control it makes their job easier.
    19. If guns cause crime then matches cause arson
    20. If guns cause crime mine are defective.
    21. Only a government afraid of its citizens tries to control them.
    22. Enforce the gun control laws that pertain to criminal activity; repeal the rest.
    23. 64,999,987 firearms owners killed no one yesterday,
      and you can expect the same results today.

    "We stole the Eagle from the Air Force;
      The Anchor from the Navy;
      The Rope from the Army, and
      on the Seventh day when God rested,
      We overran His perimeter and stole the Globe, and
      have been protecting our shores ever since."
        -- United States Marines

    "When law and morality contradict each other
      the citizen has the cruel alternative of
      either losing his sense of morality
      or losing his respect for the law."
        -- Frederick Bastiat

    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government.
      It can only exist until the voters discover that they can
      vote themselves largess from the public treasury. From that
      time on the majority always votes for the candidates promising
      the most benefits from the public treasury, with the results
      that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy,
      always followed by a dictatorship."
        -- Alexander Fraser Tytler

    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government.
      It can only exist until a majority of voters discover that
      they can vote themselves largess out of the public treasury."
        -- Alexander Tyler
        (in his 1770 book: Cycle of Democracy)

    "In these modern times, many men are wounded for not having
      weapons or knowledge of their use."
        -- Achille Marozzo, 1536

    "Who can protest and does not, is an accomplice in the act."
        -- the Talmud

    "A man may conduct himself well in both adversity and good fortune,
      but if you want to test his character, give him power."
        -- Abraham Lincoln

    "… If a man lies under oath or procures the lie of another
      under oath, if he perjures himself or suborns perjury,
      he is guilty under the statute law. Under the higher law,
      under the great law of morality and righteousness,
      he is precisely as guilty if, instead of lying in a court,
      he lies in a newspaper or on the stump; and in all probability,
      the evil effects of his conduct are infinitely more
      widespread and more pernicious."
        -- Teddy Roosevelt, 12 May 1900

    "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out
      how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could
      have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is
      actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat
      and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes up short
      again and again, because there is no effort without error and
      shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds,
      who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends
      himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the
      triumph of high achievement, and who at worst, if he fails,
      at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall
      never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither
      victory nor defeat."
        -- Theodore Roosevelt, 1910
            "Citizenship in A Republic"

    "The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin,
      of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation
      at all, would be to permit it to become
      a tangle of squabbling nationalities."
        -- Theodore Roosevelt, 1915
        Addressing the Knights of Columbus

    "The right of a citizen to bear arms, in lawful defense
      of himself or the State, is absolute. He does not derive it
      from the State government. It is one of the high powers
      delegated directly to the citizen, and 'is excepted out of
      the general powers of government.'
      A law cannot be passed to infringe upon or impair it,
      because it is above the law, and independent of the
      lawmaking power."
        -- [Cockrum v. State, 24 Tex. 394, at 401-402 (1859)]

    "The history of liberty is the history of the limitations placed on
      the government."
        -- Woodrow Wilson

    "Liberty has never come from government.
      Liberty has always come from the subjects of government.
      The history of liberty is the history of resistance."
        -- Woodrow Wilson, May 9, 1912, Address, New York Press Club

    "The saddest epitaph which can be carved in memory of a vanished
      liberty is that it was lost because its possessors failed
      to stretch forth a saving hand while yet there was time."
        -- Justice George Sutherland (1938)

    "Gun control? It's the best thing you can do for crooks and
      gangsters. I want you to have nothing. If I'm a bad guy,
      I'm always gonna have a gun. Safety locks? You will pull
      the trigger with a lock on, and I'll pull the trigger.
      We'll see who wins."
        -- Sammy "The Bull" Gravano,
        whose testimony convicted John Gotti.

    "A man can never have too much red wine, too many books,
      or too much ammunition." -- Rudyard Kipling

    "If you will not fight for the right when you can easily win
      without bloodshed, if you will not fight when your victory
      will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment
      when you will have to fight with all the odds against you
      and only a small chance of survival. There may even be
      a worse case: you may have to fight when there is
      no hope of victory, because it is better to perish
      than to live as slaves."
        -- Winston Churchill

    "History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid."
        -- Dwight D. Eisenhower

    "By calling attention to a well-regulated militia for the
      security of the Nation, and the right of each citizen to
      keep and bear arms, our Founding Fathers recognized the
      essentially civilian nature of our economy.
      Although it is extremely unlikely that the fears of
      governmental tyranny, which gave rise to the second
      amendment, will ever be a major danger to our Nation,
      the amendment still remains an important declaration of
      our basic military-civilian relationships,
      in which every citizen must be ready to participate
      in the defense of the country. For that reason
      I believe the second amendment will always be important."
        -- John F. Kennedy

    "Gun bans don't disarm criminals, gun bans attract them."
        -- Walter Mondale

    "Our policy is simple: We are not going to betray our friends,
      reward the enemies of freedom, or permit fear and retreat
      to become American policies. None of the four wars in my
      lifetime came about because we were too strong.
      It is weakness, that invites adventurous adversaries
      to make mistaken judgments."
        -- Ronald Reagan

    "An economist is someone who sees something that works
      in practice and wonders if it would work in theory."
        -- Ronald Reagan

    "Government is not the solution to our problem;
      government is the problem...
      We've been tempted to believe that society has become
      too complex to be managed by self-rule,
      that government by an elite group is superior to government
      for, by, and of the people. Well, if no one among us
      is capable of government himself, then who among us
      has the capacity to govern someone else?
      All of us together, in and out of government,
      must bear the burden. The solutions we seek
      must be equitable, with no one group singled out
      to pay a higher price."
        -- Ronald Reagan

    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil
      is that good men do nothing."
        -- Edmund Burke

    "After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns
      away from the people who didn't do it."
        -- William Burroughs, 1992

    "Secrecy is the keystone of all tyranny. Not force,
      but secrecy ... censorship. When any government,
      or any church, for that matter, undertakes to say
      to it's subjects, 'This you may not read,
      this you must not see, this you are forbidden to know,'
      the end result is tyranny and oppression, no matter
      how holy the motives. Mighty little force is needed
      to control a man whose mind has been hoodwinked;
      contrariwise, no amount of force can control a free man,
      a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack,
      not fission bombs, not anything.
      You cannot conquer a free man;
      the most you can do is kill him."
        -- Robert A. Heinlein, Revolt in 2100
        (p68-69, Baen Books paperback edition, 1999 printing)

    "The World is not dangerous because of those who do harm
      but because of those who look at it without doing anything."
        -- Albert Einstein

    "An unarmed man can only flee from evil,
      and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it."
        -- Col. Jeff Cooper

      hoplophobia - n. - an irrational and morbid fear of guns,
      a term coined by Jeff Cooper, from Greek "hoplites," weapon.

    "In the end, more than freedom, they wanted security.
      They wanted a comfortable life, and they lost it all.
      security, comfort, and freedom. When the Athenians finally
      wanted not to give to society but for society to give
      to them, when the freedom they wished for most was
      freedom from responsibility then Athens ceased to be free
      and was never free again."
        -- Edward Gibbon [On ancient Athens]

    "Yesterday we suffered from crimes; today we suffer from laws."
        So wrote Tacitus, the great Roman historian
        of the First and Second Centuries, A.D.

      Symptoms may include discomfort, disorientation, rapid pulse,
      sweating, faintness and more, at the mere sight or even thought
      of guns. Hoplophobes are common and should never be involved
      in setting gun policies, though many are hard at work in the
      rights-denial movement, and are arguably the greatest threat
      in the debate. Point out hoplophobic behavior when you see it,
      it is dangerous, and sufferers deserve pity.
      A hoplophobe (HOP-li-fobe) can often be cured by training,
      or by a day at the range.

    "A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves."
        -- Edward R. Murrow

    "A woman who demands further gun control legislation
      is like a chicken who roots for Colonel Sanders."
        -- Larry Elder

    "The 'assault weapon' ban didn't stop the
      [World Trade Center/Pentagon] terrorists,
      Brady checks didn't stop them,
      the high capacity magazine ban didn't.
      Right to Carry would have.
      If it had saved only one tower and the people in it,
      it would have been worth it. GUN CONTROL KILLS."
        -- LTC Stasski, 9/11/01

    "No law ever written has stopped any robber, rapist or killer,
      like cold blue steel in the hands of their last intended victim."
        -- W. Emerson Wright

    "I have seen an American general and his officers, without pay,
      and almost without clothes, living on roots and drinking water;
      and all for LIBERTY!   What chance have we against such men!
        -- a young British officer to Colonel Watson
        describing the American militia rebels in Georgetown, SC
        [Source: 'Marion, The Life of Gen. Francis Marion'
          by M. L. Weems, Ch.18]

    "The whole of the Bill of Rights is a declaration of the right
      of the people at large or considered as individuals.
      It establishes some rights of the individual as unalienable
      and which consequently, no majority has a right to deprive them of."
        -- Albert Gallatin
            of the New York Historical Society, October 7, 1789.

    "In these modern times, many men are wounded for not having
      weapons or knowledge of their use."
        -- Achille Marozzo   1536

    "Congress have no power to disarm the militia.
      Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the
      soldier, are the birthright of an American...
      The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of
      either the federal or state government, but,
      where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands
      of the people."
        -- Tench Coxe, Pennsylvania Gazette, 20 Feb 1788

    "As civil rulers, not having their duty to the people before them,
      may attempt to tyrannize, and as the military forces which must
      be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their
      power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are
      confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear their
      private arms."
        -- Tench Coxe in
        `Remarks on the First Part of the Amendments to
        the Federal Constitution
    ' under the Pseudonym
        "A Pennsylvanian" in the Philadelphia Federal Gazette,
        June 18, 1789 at 2 col. 1.

    "A state may not impose a charge for the enjoyment of a right
      granted by the federal constitution..."
        -- Murdock v. Pennsylvania 319 US 105 (1942)

    "The laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those
      who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes…
      Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for
      the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent
      homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater
      confidence than an armed man."
        -- Thomas Jefferson

    "There are more instances of the abridgement of the freedom
      of the people by the gradual and silent encroachment of
      those in power, than by violent and sudden usurpation."
        -- James Madison

    "Americans have the right and advantage of being armed -
      unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments
      are afraid to trust the people with arms."
        -- James Madison, The Federalist Papers No. 46 at 243-244.

    "If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal
      controls on government would be necessary. In framing a
      government that is to be administered by men over men,
      the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable
      the government to control the governed; and in the
      next place oblige it to control itself."
        -- James Madison

    "America does not go abroad in search of monsters to destroy.
      She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all.
      She well knows that by one enlisting under other banners
      than her own, were they even the banners of foreign independence,
      she would involve herself beyond the power of extrication
      in all the wars of interest and intrigue, of individual avarice,
      envy and ambition, which assume the colors and usurp
      the standards of freedom."
        -- John Quincy Adams (1821)

    "Resistance to sudden violence, for the preservation not only
      of my person, my limbs, and life, but of my property,
      is an indisputable right of nature which I have never
      surrendered to the public by the compact of society,
      and which perhaps, I could not surrender if I would."
        -- John Adams

    "To suppose arms in the hands of citizens, to be used at
      individual discretion, except in private self-defense or by
      partial orders of towns... is a dissolution of the government."
        -- John Adams,
        Defense of the Constitutions of Government
        of the United States of America (1787-1788).

    "To trust arms in the hands of the people at large has, in Europe,
      been be an experiment fraught only with danger.
      Here by a long trial it has been proved to be perfectly harmless...
      If the government be equitable; if it be reasonable in its exactions;
      if proper attention be paid to the education of children
      in knowledge and religion, few men will be disposed to use arms,
      unless for their amusement, and for the defence of themselves
      and their country."
        -- Timothy Dwight, Travels in New England and New York [London 1823]

    "A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves...
      and include all men capable of bearing arms."
        -- Richard Henry Lee,
        Additional Letters from the Federal Framer (1788) at p. 169

    "If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns.
      Only the police, the secret police, the military,
      the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government --
      and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws."
        -- Edward Abbey

    "No kingdom can be secured otherwise than by arming the people.
      The possession of arms is the distinction between a freeman
      and a slave. He, who has nothing, and who himself belongs to
      another, must be defended by him, whose property he is,
      and needs no arms. But he, who thinks he is his own master,
      and has what he can call his own, ought to have arms to
      defend himself, and what he possesses; else he lives
      precariously, and at discretion."
        -- James Burgh, Political Disquisitions: Or, an Enquiry into
        Public Errors, Defects, and Abuses [London, 1774-1775].

    "The supposed quietude of a good mans allures the ruffian;
      while on the other hand, arms like laws discourage and
      keep the invader and the plunderer in awe, and preserve order
      in the world as well as property. The same balance
      would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms,
      for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not
      lay them aside...Horrid mischief would ensue were one half
      the world deprived of the use of them..."
        -- Thomas Paine, I Writings of Thomas Paine at 56 (1894).

    "Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe,
      and preserve order in the world as well as property . . .
      Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived
      of the use of them."
        -- Thomas Paine, Thoughts on Defensive War (1775).

    "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who
      falsely believe they are free."
        -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, German philosopher

    "The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to
      allow the subject races to possess arms. History shows that
      all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry
      arms have prepared their fall by doing so."
        -- Adolf Hitler

    "The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to
      permit the conquered Eastern peoples to have arms.
      History teaches that all conquerors who have allowed
      their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own
      downfall by doing so. Indeed I would go so far as to say
      that the underdog is a sine qua non for the overthrow of
      any sovereignty. So let's not have any native militia or
      police. German troops alone will bear the sole responsibility
      for the maintenance of law and order."
      -- Adolf Hitler, April 11, 1942.
      (Source: "Hitler's Table-Talk
          at the Fuehrer's Headquarters 1941-1942
          Dr. Henry Picker, ed. (Athenaeum Verlag, Bonn, 1951).)

    "What good fortune for those in power that people do not think."
       p; -- Adolf Hitler, as quoted by Joachim Fest

    "Naturally, the common people do not want war, but they can
      always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.
      Tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the
      pacifists for lack of patriotism and endangering the country.
      It works the same in every country."
        -- Herman Goering
            Hitler's Reichsmarschall at the Nuremberg Trials

    "Ordinary citizens don't need guns,
      as their having guns doesn't serve the State."
        -- Heinrich Himmler   1935

    "There is no doubt in my mind that millions of lives could
      have been saved if the people had not been "brainwashed"
      about gun ownership and they had been well armed.
      Hitler's thugs and goons were not very brave when confronted
      by a gun. Gun haters always want to forget the Warsaw Ghetto
      uprising, which is a perfect example of how a ragtag,
      half starved group of Jews took up 10 handguns and made asses
      out of the Nazi's."
        -- Theodore Haas, former prisoner
        of the infamous Dachau prisoner concentration camp

    "We can forgive them for killing our sons,
      but we cannot forgive them for making us kill their sons."
        -- Golda Meir

    "We can't be so fixated on our desire to preserve the
      rights of ordinary Americans ..."
        -- President Bill Clinton   'USA Today' 11 March 1993: Page 2A

    "By a very conservative estimate, a hundred million people have
      died at the hands of their own governments in this [twentieth] century.
      Given that record, how bad could anarchy be?"
        -- Joseph Sobran

    "The common good comes before the private good."
        -- Nazi slogan
    "Comrades! We must abolish the cult of the individual decisively,
      once and for all."
        -- Nikita Khrushchev, 25 Feb 1956,
          20th Congress of the Communist Party
    "We must stop thinking of the individual
      and start thinking about what is best for society."
        -- Hillary Clinton   1993

    "Do we really think that a government-dominated education
      is going to produce citizens capable of dominating their
      government, as the education of a truly vigilant
      self-governing people requires?"
        -- Alan Keyes

    "Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun."
        -- Mao Tse-tung

    "One man with a gun can control 100 without one."
        -- Vladimir Lenin
    "A system of licensing and registration is the perfect device
      to deny gun ownership to the bourgeoisie."
        -- Vladimir Ilyich Lenin

    "We don't let them have ideas. Why would we let them have guns?"
        -- Joseph Stalin

    "Ideas are more powerful than guns.
      We would not let our enemies have guns;
      why should we let them have ideas?"
        -- Joseph Stalin

    "Guns Don't Kill People...
      Guys who come home early, kill people!"

    "Without freedom there will be no firearms among the people;
      without firearms among the people there will not long be freedom.
      Certainly there are examples of countries where the people
      remain relatively free after the people have been disarmed,
      but there are no examples of a totalitarian state being
      created or existing where the people have personal arms."
        -- Neal Knox

    "If I were an American, as I am an Englishman, while a foreign troop
      was landed in my country I never would lay down my arms,
      never! never! never!"
        -- William Pitt, Earl of Chatham (1708-1778) Speech, Nov. 18, 1777

    "False is the idea of utility that sacrifices a thousand real
      advantages for one imaginary or trifling inconvenience;
        that would take fire from men because it burns, and
        water because one may drown in it;
      that has no remedy for evils except destruction.
      The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature.
      They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined
      to commit crime."
        -- Cesare Beccaria, quoted by Thomas Jefferson

    "The laws that forbid the carrying of arms ...disarm only those
      who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.
      ...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better
      for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage
      than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked
      with greater confidence than an armed man."
        -- Cesare Beccaria   1764, Italian criminologist

    "[The American Colonies were] all democratic governments,
      where the power is in the hands of the people and where
      there is not the least difficulty or jealousy about putting
      arms into the hands of every man in the country.
      [European countries should not] be ignorant of the strength
      and the force of such a form of government and
      how strenuously and almost wonderfully people living under one
      have sometimes exerted themselves in defence of their rights
      and liberties and how fatally it has ended with many a man
      and many a state who have entered into quarrels, wars and
      contests with them."
        -- George Mason,
        "Remarks on Annual Elections for the Fairfax Independent Company"
        in The Papers of George Mason, 1725-1792,
        ed Robert A. Rutland   (Chapel Hill, 1970).

    "Those, who have the command of the arms in a country are masters
      of the state, and have it in their power to make what revolutions
      they please. [Thus,] there is no end to observations on the
      difference between the measures likely to be pursued by a
      minister backed by a standing army, and those of a court awed
      by the fear of an armed people."
        -- Aristotle, as quoted by John Trenchard and Water Moyle,
        An Argument Shewing, That a Standing Army Is Inconsistent
        with a Free Government, and Absolutely Destructive to the
        Constitution of the English Monarchy [London, 1697].

    "That the said Constitution shall never be construed to authorize
      Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press or the rights
      of conscience; or to prevent the people of The United States
      who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms..."
        -- Samuel Adams, Debates and Proceedings in the Convention
        of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts,
        at 86-87 (Pierce & Hale, eds., Boston, 1850).

    "If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquillity of servitude
      than the animating contest of freedom, . go from us in peace.
      We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands
      which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you,
      and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen!."
        -- Samuel Adams

    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending
      too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."
        -- Thomas Jefferson, 1791

     To prohibit a citizen from wearing or carrying a war arm…
      is an unwarranted restriction upon the constitutional right
      to keep and bear arms. If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes
      shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be
      prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general
      deprivation of constitutional privilege.
        -- [Wilson v. State, 33 Ark.557, at 560, 34 Am.Rep. 52, at 54(1878)]

     Former Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has explained
      Israel's remarkable record of airline safety and security by saying
      that the difference between Israeli and U.S. air security is that
      Americans look for bombs
      but Israelis look for bombers.

    "If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you,
      it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun."
        - The Dalai Lama, (May 15, 2001, The Seattle Times)
        speaking at the "Educating Heart Summit"
        in Portland, Oregon, when asked by a girl
        how to react when a shooter takes aim at a classmate.

    "Most reporters are very sympathetic to gun-control agendas
        and will skew or lie outright about facts to promote them.
        -- Dennis Cauchon, USA TODAY

    "Many politicians are in the habit of laying it down
      as a self-evident proposition, that no people ought
      to be free till they are fit to use their freedom.
      The maxim is worthy of the fool in the old story,
      who resolved not to go into the water till he had
      learned to swim. If men are to wait for liberty till
      they become wise and good in slavery,
      they may indeed wait forever.
        -- Lord Thomas MacAulay

    "You do not examine legislation in light of the benefits
      it will convey if properly administered, but in light of
      the wrongs it would do and the harms it would cause
      if improperly administered."
        -- Lyndon B Johnson

    "For those that will fight for it, FREEDOM has a flavor
      the protected shall never know."
        -- L/Cpl Edwin L."Tim" Craft, Feb 1968, Khe Sahn Combat Base

    "The right of citizens to bear arms is just one more guarantee
      against arbitrary government, one more safeguard against
      tyranny, which though now appears remote in America,
      history has proven to be always possible."
        -- Senator Hubert H. Humphrey

    "Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice.
      Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue."
        -- Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964 (1909-1998)

    "All mushrooms are edible, but some you eat only once."

    "The NRA has a point about the inadvisability of simply
      taking guns away from the populace. If that were
      possible, it would not disarm that small percentage of
      the population willing to break the law...
      Punishing people who obey the law is backward thinking."
        -- Hugh Downs, Veteran ABC newsman

    "Just because you do not take an interest in politics
      does not mean politics won't take an interest in you."
        -- Pericles 430 BC

    "Most people can't think,
      most of the remainder won't think,
      the small fraction who do think
      mostly can't do it very well.
      The extremely tiny fraction who think regularly,
      accurately, creatively, and without self-delusion
      in the long run, these are the only people who count."
        -- Robert Heinlein

    "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
      butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet,
      balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying,
      take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations,
      analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer,
      cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
      Specialization is for insects."
        -- Robert Heinlein

    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious.
      But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the
      gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his
      banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within
      the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the
      alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself.
      For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents
      familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their
      arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the
      hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works
      secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars
      of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no
      longer resist. A murderer is less to fear."
        -- Marcus Tullius Cicero (42B.C)

  • Gurteen is a source of Quotes
      for presentations...

    " Don't worry about people stealing your ideas.
      If your ideas are any good,
      you'll have to ram them down people's throats."
        -- Howard Aiken
        ( Howard Hathaway Aiken 1900-73,
       0;   Harvard: Mark-I computer, early 1940s )

    " It's easier to ask forgiveness than it is to get permission."
    " A ship in a harbor is safe, but that is not what a ship is built for."
        -- Grace Hopper, USNavy R.Adm 1906-92
          'Computer BUG' -and- COBOL -and- nano-second

    Fri 17 Sep 2004
    (browsing at Walmart)
    FireArms Price Guide
    Make .cal ModelValue
    Walther .22 P22 ~500
    Walther 9mm P99 ~999
    Colt .45 Cmdr ~300+
    Ruger .22 Mrk-I ~130
    S&W .38spc 28-2 ~200
    Marlin 30-30 336A ~175
    Ruger 9mm P89 ~200 (MSRP:475/4½")
    CZ 9mm 75 ~200
    S&W 9mm 459
    CZ 9mm 75 B $400 (120mm barrel)
    S&W 9mm 952 ??? (5" barrel)
    Beretta 9mm 92 ~800 (4.9" barrel)
    Kel-Tec 9mm P11 ~315 (SU-16:640)
    Kel-Tec .223 SU-16 ~640 KTOG
    Browning 9mm HiPwrStd ~800